Issues about \u00a0where and when cars & vehicles are allowed on the fire roads.\u00a0 When is it appropriate to drive off a fire road?<\/p>\n
Compilation below: From Tuesday 6\/14\/11<\/p>\n
Note: My original request for input email is at the bottom
\nof the compilation, Georgia<\/p>\n
Note: I do not have a copy of Christies original email to
\nthe board.<\/p>\n
From Morris: I would especially agree with your last point–that this is
\nnot a decision to be made without member input<\/p>\n
Also that vehicles should not be banned. Respect for pasture conditions may mandate
\nthat there are times when a vehicle should not be driven, because it can tear
\nup a wet road. Vehicles should not traverse high dry grass with hot catalytic
\nconverters\u00a0 laying low.\u00a0 And vehicles should not be
\nparked on the roads, but pulled over to the side, so another vehicle can get by
\nif necessary. Basic common sense.<\/p>\n
But prohibiting driving on the pasture makes no sense, and will not prevent
\naccidents. Are we going to ban riding when hawks are flying, or get off when a
\ndeer darts into view?\u00a0 The deer have certainly caused far more incidents
\nthan any vehicles on the pasture.<\/p>\n
And a sign makes no sense to me. There is nothing wrong with driving a vehicle
\non the pasture, unless it is somehow harming the pasture–see above.<\/p>\n
From Renee:<\/p>\n
I would hope that we can invite more member input on this
\nissue beyond a brief mention in the agenda. This is an issue that
\naffects\u00a0more than a few\u00a0members. It sets an interesting precedent for
\nmore and more restrictions on this already more and more restricted pasture.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
What happened to Pam and Alice was very very unfortunate.\u00a0I hope
\nthat both Alice and Pam don’t have any long lasting effects. Banning all
\nnon-natural objects in the pasture may eliminate some incidents like this. Yet
\nis it really going to be worth it? Some people have issues and can’t walk so
\nvery much to get up in the pasture. It saves time in this busy world for
\nothers.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
We all know\u00a0that horses shy at anything and we also
\nknow that the more exposure they have to stuff the less they shy. Yet, the horses
\nin question (especially that lovable Dexter)\u00a0has had\u00a0a reputation in
\nthe past for shying over and over again. Then recently while Richard and I were
\nwalking down the road to the LP on rainy Saturday last Fudgie shied at a tree
\nhe probably saw many times. Maybe he has eye issues as he gets older? Was it
\nFudgie who shied first or Dexter or did they shy simultaneously? Not trying to
\nfind a culprit just trying to analyze what happened so we can see if it is
\nreally something that warrants banning cars. I realize I may be inviting
\nderision from some people who think I’m over analyzing but honestly I’m
\nconcerned that this may be ill-considered and not necessary. Please bear with
\nme and have patience.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
I would like to\u00a0hear from Pam or Alice about what exactly went down.
\nAlso do they\u00a0think is necessary\u00a0to ban cars?<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
As an aside Alice
\nused to have a problem with her horse bolting long ago. I went for a ride with
\nher. I noticed her crupper was mis-adjusted. It was pinching her horses ass. Alice was so
\ngrateful\u00a0that I\u00a0saw his tail scrunching down and when she removed the
\ncrupper NO more bolting! Miracle!<\/p>\n
I heard that the horses bolted when they were very far from the cars. How are
\nwe sure that they shied from the cars?<\/p>\n
From Christie:
\nShe sent an email I did not see, this was her comment to my email:
\nCars are everywhere in the environment where we ride. Horses spook at all kinds
\nof things inconsistently. \u00a0Maybe we should ban fallen logs, deer, or maybe
\nwe should ban spooky horses. \u00a0All just as absurd.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
.From
\nAnonymous:
\n1) It is true Pam and Alice have fallen many times, and I think Dexter is
\nspooky at least from what I am told. It certainly wasn’t your car’s fault.<\/p>\n
Reply to another Anonymous who did not want want their comments posted from
\nGeorgia:
\n… driving up there is
\nthe thing that has made me FARRRRR more able to come by \/ ride \/ check in than
\never, ever, ever, before. Another board member expressed that they want no cars
\nup there for esthetic reasons. If even one board member tries to take away the
\nONE THING that has made OHA better for me I feel like it is an emergency. That
\nperson wants to go to EBMUD and express concerns. If they prejudiced EBMUD they
\ncould take away my access to my horses.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
There
\nis a well intentioned member who preaches how good the exercise is to climb the
\nhill. Lenny explained to that person that he could not breathe and it takes him
\n10 – 15 min. to get up the first hill. I want Lenny to share to horses with me
\nwhen he can. That is why I bought Spice after I could ride again (after I
\nhealed from my disability) so I could have my husband up there with me from
\ntime to time. That member ignored Lenny’s explanation of his disability and went
\non preaching exercise. Lenny goes to the gym regularly but he cannot climb.
\nThis kind of comment by someone makes me feel that their philosophy is more
\nimportant than the person standing in front of them. It makes me want to go all
\nMAMA BEAR and defend my family and the MAIN thing that makes it workable to
\ncome to OHA. Love that member but they was not considering our needs. They
\n“got it” after two or three more explanations, however, so we are
\ngood.<\/p>\n
Miscellaneous:
\n1) Not anonymous but a member verbally told me they are offended by
\nseeing cars on the pasture for esthetic reasons. No permission to put a name to
\nit.
\n2) Not anonymous but asked not to share the content of their letter. My
\nreply to the concerns:
\nI like Alisons note about designated areas. I like to use the Pond barn
\nenclosure, Separates the horses by a fence. Need to let your car cool before
\ngoing in, or keep it weed whipped. Very convenient place to park. I an
\nconcerned about members who have a different view from mine prejudicing EBMUD.
\nLeaving cars unattended could be done safely and be OK with EBMUD if we had
\ndesignated areas.
\nEBMUDS guidelines are not set in stone – by prejudicing them they will be set
\nin stone. Not good for my future. I was injured for almost ten years and not
\nable to be at OHA much. Driving has made it possible for me to be there far
\nmore than you know. I hide up there, keeps me away from all this ugliness.
\n“As OHA Turns” is a comment made by one who is also tired of people
\nbickering up there.
\n3) I feel sorry for Pam & Alice they have to read these comments. I
\nknow what it is like to be injured and unable to ride, my case for almost 10
\nyears. Watching you life change overnight causes a great deal of mourning and
\ngrief. Been there, I do not envy them.
\n4) Correct about eventual disabilities but note it is required for a new
\nmember and their horse to be fit enough to be on pasture. “They” –
\nwhoever the powers that be are at that time – could eventually use that to make
\nsomeones life miserable. When I was disabled there were plenty of catty people
\nwho doubted my dedication. It was very hurtful and discouraging.<\/p>\n
From Pam:
\nI realize this is an old issue, but in light of the recent accident that Alice
\nand I sustained, I am hoping the Board will take action. Although we cannot
\nknow for a certainty that the car parked by the plateau gate caused the panic
\nin the horses, they definitely were tense in response to seeing the car there.<\/p>\n
It would be great if the Board could request that members not park cars on the
\npasture as a matter of convenience. It is not necessary and presents a real
\ndanger.<\/p>\n
From Bubs:<\/p>\n
Thank you, Pam. I agree with you. I know that cars and
\ntrucks are sometimes needed for feeding or moving heavy objects, but I think it
\nimportant to minimize their impact on our wonderful pasture especially I light
\nof the recent accident.<\/p>\n
Bubs<\/p>\n
From Wakean:
\nHi Georgia- The Board meeting is Tues night the 14th.not Thurs. \u00a0 \u00a0I
\nthink your points are very good!<\/p>\n
From Kim:
\nI presume the question of cars is coming up due to the recent spooking of
\nhorses in the pasture.\u00a0 This question has come up to the board before and
\ncars were allowed to continue being up there for the following reasons:<\/p>\n
– EMBUD needs to be able to access it for maintenance
\n– We run work parties and need to access it for the same reason
\n– Cross fencing adds a 40 minute walk to each time an owner visits a horse
\nwhich was not the case before putting a heavy burden on all members
\nparticularly those with limited time.<\/p>\n
I believe any horse should be trained to handle any situation.\u00a0 There are
\ncases when unfortunate accidents occur due to unforeseen events such as the sun
\nreflecting off a silver car.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This situation could have easily
\noccurred in Tilden at the parking areas and resulted in a run away horse down
\nWildcat.<\/p>\n
If we were not to allow cars the horses would not be seen by as many eyes as
\nbefore and owners would be more apt to keep horses in stalls so they can ride
\nin a limited amount of time.\u00a0 If we do have such a policy, I would ask
\nthat it only be done with a removal of all cross fencing so things go back to
\n“the way they were”.<\/p>\n
More from Kim: As the New Testament says “don’t
\njudge a man until you have walked 3 miles in his shoes”.\u00a0 10 minutes
\nto you may seem like a lifetime to another member.\u00a0 Also, what’s great about
\nGeorgia
\nis that she also brings up Lens Cogwell a founding member in his 80’s to see
\nthe pasture as an outing to help him live longer!\u00a0 If a horse is not trail
\nsafe then the ring is the next best thing.<\/p>\n
More from Kim:
\nCommenting on Alisons email: Great point but evidence will show u that they do
\nexpect this on trail too which is exactly why Bronwyn was hurt on San Pablo.
\nThe horse had ridden there before and the was no pallet there. When it was
\nthere on another ride he bolted. Not on our trail. On the road. This proves
\nthat accidents can happen anywhere at any place. Cooper nearly came out of his
\nskin at Gillespie because a sign was there that wasn’t there before.<\/p>\n
From Gailyn:
\nDon’t have objection to occasional car for purposes you mentioned. Hasn’t been
\nbig issue till now. Fire hazard my main concern.
\nAddress where to leave car if not in grass due to fire
\nhazard. If left on fire rd, might obstruct others\/emergency
\nvehicles. Jokingly I can suggest to the board they go hard on all things horses
\nhave spooked at: Wind, hawks, deer, plastic. Also work parties, weeders, EBMUD
\nwork vehicles. Ban them?<\/p>\n
Note from Georgia: I park on bare ground or let my car sit in the
\nroad (with me there) until I am sure the catalytic converter is cool, then move
\nit off the road. Another thought: The hay corrals are ugly, the fencing
\nis ugly. We get used to it because it is helpful.<\/p>\n
From David Whittall:<\/p>\n
I am a new member at OHA. I appreciate your e-mail to the
\nmembers and suggestion that we write to you and not to “all OHA” to
\nvoice our opinions.\u00a0\u00a0 I am copying Kirsten as the Board
\nPresident.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
I have lived with my own horses, been responsible for other
\npeople’s horses on my property and been responsible for other people’s horses
\nat their properties and on the road during events and competitions far away
\nfrom home.<\/p>\n
The one guiding principle that, for me, supersedes all others is this: “Do
\nwhat is right for the horses first”. Putting motor
\nvehicles into their pasture, vehicles that can spook them, cause
\nfires\u00a0or otherwise interfere with their free and safe movement is in no
\nway in their interest.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
I\u00a0encourage the Board to prohibit this practice. There
\nis no slippery slope here;\u00a0it is
\na simple decision about what is best for our horses.<\/p>\n
Reply to David from Georgia:<\/p>\n
Got it, thanks for your input. Included in the compilation. <\/p>\n Some members have kept their horses in stalls for <\/p>\n You are very lucky to be a new member at OHA, what a <\/p>\n From Julie Dixon:<\/p>\n My 2 I think that Pam and <\/p>\n From Kim:<\/p>\n Also, I would like to point out that right now 3 board <\/p>\n Note from Georgia:<\/p>\n Not to mention that the horses who do graze the <\/p>\n From Becky:<\/p>\n Personally I don’t get why anyone needs to drive to the I’ve found it ridiculous and possible unsafe to see you take And, the accident to me certainly should put the seal on Reply to Becky from Georgia: From David Curto: More from Morris: Cars should be restricted so that hey don’t cause damage to wet ground, But horses spook at all kinds of things, and it is our job to train them not to And if driving up into the pasture enables someone who otherwise might not have From Christina:<\/p>\n As a pregnant and less mobile OHA rider (who is not riding but Just my opinion.<\/p>\n From Harvey: From Linda F: From Heidi: More from Heidi: OHA doesn’t seem to be conducive to riding anymore with all of this cross I know that all of the long time members miss the days when we just let the Also, when looking for an OHA horse, I ask if the horse:\u00a0 Is easy to And for those members who don’t ride bareback, don’t have a 4WD, can’t walk From Eddie: It is hard be believe they would be that spooky just from a car, which all the I think cars should be allowed — but not encouraged — to drive on the fire From Alison: There has been much emailing today about cars and that horses should be For example, both horses I’ve ridden in my tenure at OHA have thousands of So, I believe that from the horses’ perspective, it’s different to encounter a As a compromise I suggest we consider designating two parking areas for cars – Isn’t there a real danger of fire, driving cars in the pasture during the dry Anyway, thought I’d add this perspective to the mix. There’s much more I am Reply from Georgia: From Christie: More from Christie: I have had people turn galloping horses in the ring while I was riding my baby From Elise:<\/p>\n I am in the camp of not allowing autos in pastures except <\/p>\n My concerns center around the Reply from Georgia:<\/p>\n My 2 cents: Good points, there are some common sense rules for driving on rural Note: I left out the Christie \/Sara comments where things got said that More from Renee: *****************<\/p>\n Possible solutions:<\/p>\n A sign on the gates saying a car is in the pasture. Eddie: The best cooperative is one in which members cooperate<\/p>\n Original email request for input: Dear ************************************************************************ Short Action: In order to avoid an OHA email flurry, I’d like to receive and Long story: Rumor is the board will be discussing having no cars on the pasture in My car was parked in the pasture and the reason for the bolting and accident is An accident could have happened to David and I from the hawk on the same day. Over the years there have been many incidents that causes horses to bolt and My thoughts on cars: Driving and parking on the pasture is a very Unfortunately, since the pasture is cross fenced, getting to the horses Not everyone has a vehicle that can go up hills and there are others who are We cannot protect from all things. This issue has been visited before at least From an esthetic point of view, some members do not like to see cars on the There could be other solutions short of barring cars. Some have told me the <\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Issues about \u00a0where and when cars & vehicles are allowed on the fire roads.\u00a0 When is it appropriate to drive off a fire road? Compilation of emails re: Cars on pasture, 6\/12 – 6-14 Compilation below: From Tuesday 6\/14\/11 Note: My original request for input email is at the bottom of the compilation, Georgia Note:… Read More »Cars on Pasture<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"parent":1089,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_bbp_topic_count":0,"_bbp_reply_count":0,"_bbp_total_topic_count":0,"_bbp_total_reply_count":0,"_bbp_voice_count":0,"_bbp_anonymous_reply_count":0,"_bbp_topic_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_reply_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_forum_subforum_count":0,"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1095"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1095"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1095\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1096,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1095\/revisions\/1096"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1089"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1095"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1095"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/orindahorsemen.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1095"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\nYou are new here, just so you know, the cars are not parked where in the
\npastures where the horses are residing. The horses will chew on them, yummy! I
\npersonally use safety practices around cars and weeds. We use the vehicles for
\nchores in the pasture and drive amongst the herd while feeding. See the video
\nFeeding horses at OHA: http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=AnmDac1AjWI&feature=related<\/a>.
\nI live 25 -30 min away and being able to drive up there allows me to come FAR
\nmore often. I am 59, quite fit and hearty and have been a member for over 30
\nyears, lived in many places, this being the farthest away. Driving allows me to
\nextend my years here and my husbands participation. A 1- 2 hour ride for me can
\ntake 4- 5 hours sometimes more. Vehicle access shortens the time. In some
\npastures, it is a 40 min walk to get your horse back to the saddles, then
\nsaddle up, ride, remove the saddles, groom, then 40 min to return it. In the 30
\nyears I have been here this is the first accident that could be possibly
\npegged on a car in pasture. It also allows me to stay away from unpleasant
\nmembers ;-). I usually park in the enclosure near the Pond Barn after letting
\nmy car cool off, this time I parked where some others do, in a wide flat area.
\nI also pony my horses with the car. Cowboys do it, I do it too with proper
\ntraining.<\/p>\n
\nconvenience but this is a pasture and our horses job there is to graze. At one
\ntime many members kept their horses in and rode every day and others had no
\nplace to keep theirs on the occasional time they needed the stalls. Excessive
\nstall use is no longer allowed (because of overuse abuse) except for occasional
\nriding convenience, health reasons and shoeing. My horses are out there eating
\ntheir share in the farther pastures more often and longer because I utilize my
\nvehicle to help manage them.<\/p>\n
\nwonderful place. You sound like a good addition to our pasture.<\/p>\n
\ncents – I like the idea of limiting vehicles in the pasture. \u00a0However,
\nthere are definitely times and people for whom it is entirely appropriate and
\nneeded. \u00a0Your examples of Lens and work parties are good ones. \u00a0I
\nalso can understand that when you don’t have a lot of time, driving up can mean
\nthe difference between visiting or postponing. \u00a0I do think that generally,
\nmost of the membership doesn’t drive up into the pasture anyway. \u00a0You,
\nChristie and Jim, and Kim are the only ones I know of who do it with any
\nregularity.<\/p>\n
\nAlice’s accident was incredibly unfortunate and I am sure we all wish it could
\nhave been avoided. \u00a0However, I don’t see that we have a big problem with
\ncars in the pasture in general. \u00a0If we had a lot of people driving the
\npasture roads, it would be more worth regulating, but we don’t.<\/p>\n
\nmembers are not participating in the PO
\ngrazing and did not participate in the Upper Upper where they might want to
\nbring a car.\u00a0 So, their continued use of stalls makes them unable to vote
\non an issue they don’t face…\u00a0 That and we pay higher dues while they use
\na higher cost of a resource in OHA.<\/p>\n
\nfar-flung pastures and the PO have to stay
\nthere longer because of the non-participation of those who do not go there. But
\nthis is a different subject for another discussion. Mine are going to the PO soon to help out.<\/p>\n
\npasture unless they’re delivering large amounts of hay! \u00a0 It’s only a ten
\nminute walk – good for everyone who likes to ride.<\/p>\n
\nyour horse up driving (!) with your arm out the window up a hill.<\/p>\n
\nanyone taking their car to the pasture unless it’s an emergency, and, most
\ndefinitely a shiny one. \u00a0 Hopefully you get it that Alice and Pam may never ride again.<\/p>\n
\nI disagree, my horses are trained to do that and cowboys have been doing it
\nfor years, tied to the back of a truck. My way is safer, and allows me to move
\nthe two around faster, give them quick exercise and “lunge” them on
\nlevel ground instead of a field with possible mole holes. We all have different
\nways of doing things. I hope Alice and Pam heal, truly. (Note: I am not
\ntaking this injury lightly, it is horrible they got hurt) I timed going to the
\nUpper Upper and it was 40 min round trip. I made it a bit faster
\nrunning. After cross fencing, the ones who cannot afford to take their horses
\nout are stuck with a long walk or not riding seeing their horses at all. You
\nare lucky to sponsor a horse from a member who has more options than others of
\nus. In the 30 years I have been here this is the first accident that
\ncould be possibly pegged on a car in pasture.<\/p>\n
\nAll horses spook at various things and some horses more than others. Herd
\nbehavior is fight or flight
\nand\u00a0 plays heavily into these types of
\nreactions. Any object can cause some horses to spook, Banning vehicles is not a
\nsolution but rather a knee jerk reaction. There are many reasons why
\nvehicles are needed to manage the property. One could also make the point
\nthat if there were regular vehicles, the horses would acclimate to them.
\nI agree with Pam, one person’s convenience can be another’s misery.<\/p>\n
\nAs much as I feel for Alice and Pam, and truly hope they fully recover, I can’t
\nsee banning cars.<\/p>\n
\nparticularly off road, which has happened a few times, and so that they don’t
\ncause a fire in high grass, again off road, which has never happened at OHA.<\/p>\n
\nover-react, especially when we are riding them. Acclimating them to vehicles is
\npart of that training.\u00a0 If someone were thrown by a horse that spooked
\nbecause a car was in view at Inspiration Pt or El Toyonal, a rider landing on
\npavement could sustain far greater injuries.<\/p>\n
\nthe time to see their horse more often, then that benefits them, the horse and
\nthe entire pasture–as long as they are not damaging the terrain or sparking a
\nfire.<\/p>\n
\nstill likes to go up and check on the horses) I appreciate having the
\nflexibility of driving up in Georgia’s
\n4WD vehicle. I think appropriate vehicles should be allowed (4WD) and if the
\nperson is responsible (ie not driving like a maniac) on a case by case basis.
\nAs far as I know Georgia
\nhas been an OHA member for 20 + years and this should also be taken into
\nconsideration. Finally-how can anyone “prove” that the car caused the
\nhorses to spook? I would be concerned if my horse could not handle seeing a car
\nas they are present many times while riding through the various trails.<\/p>\n
\nGeorgia,
\nYour arguments are very reasonable and stated very calmly.\u00a0 I share
\nmost of them, if not all, of them.\u00a0 When you get down to it, the only safe
\nride on a horse may have been those electric ones you used see in front of
\nSafeway.\u00a0 However, I don’t shop Safeway,\u00a0and the\u00a0last time I did
\nI don’t recall seeing any.\u00a0 So, maybe they were removed for safety
\nreasons, and there is no safe ride on any horse any time.<\/p>\n
\nHi Georgia—I am against restricting cars. \u00a0However, due to fire
\nhazard, they must stay on the fire roads. \u00a0If someone is
\nriding in the pasture and drives in and leaves their car, then they must not
\nleave the pasture to ride. \u00a0I have heard that Cheryl and Bronwyn do not
\nwant to restrict cars either.<\/p>\n
\nOver the past 40 plus years at OHA I have ridden many different horses. I have
\nseen shiny milar balloons in the grass, as well as hang gliders overhead and
\ncertainly the occasional EBMUD truck parked in an unfamiliar area of the
\npasture. I can say that, for instance I could walk right up to any of these
\nthings with Reminick and Macho, etc. and they would not flinch, whereas with
\nMonty of Domino, they would spook and want to bolt. I will do anything to avoid
\nbuying a spooky horse because I have had too many accidents, but sometimes you
\njust know when they spook and you always must be prepared for this.<\/p>\n
\nI know this is a bit off subject but all of this made me start to think. When I
\nlook at horses for sale now, I ask the usual criteria when buying a horse, plus
\nI ask if the horse is: spooky and can be ridden bareback with a halter.
\nit is far easier to catch your horse and ride bareback then catching them way
\ndown in the forest meadow, tacking up in saddling area, riding, and then
\nwalking the horse back up to the forest because he is sweaty, and all that
\nwalking is bad for my knee, but its also not easy to jump on and off to open
\nthe different gates in the pasture. This is all too time consuming.<\/p>\n
\nfencing. And since our members have gone along with all of this inconvenience,
\nnot to mention the moves, then we should make it easier for our riders to do
\nso, and if that means using a truck to stage at the pasture where they are
\ngrazing and ride from there then so be it. We as members have adapted to the
\nchange of cross fencing, so we must adapt to cars up there in order to make it
\neasier to ride’.<\/p>\n
\nhorse out at the gate when we were done. Who doesn’t looks forward to riding
\nonly when they are in the pond and lower pasture.<\/p>\n
\ncatch, especially in a herd, is an easy keeper and can tolerate grass hay and
\nalfalfa, the horse is sound and can go preferably barefoot. It’s not easy
\nfinding your. perfect horse that will fit in with OHA.<\/p>\n
\nalong time or can’t catch their horses I wish you luck.
\nTWHA’s obstacle course, ride and Grizzly peak stables parade
\ncertification course are good ways to get your horse use to scary things.<\/p>\n
\nThank you Sara, for reminding us all about how scared the horses were.<\/p>\n
\nhorses are used to seeing — albeit, not in the tall grass.\u00a0 One guess —
\njust a guess — is that the only thing humans could see out of place was the
\ncar, but that there was something else<\/p>\n
\nroads, with all the warnings that Morris mentioned.\u00a0 I do walk up, but I
\ncan see that there might be times — or some year — when I’d want or need to
\ndrive.<\/p>\n
\nIt’s been an amazing experience for me, spending time with the herd in the
\nwilds of their OHA home. Unlike most domestic horses, these horses get to live
\nas close to wild horses as it gets. It’s pretty cool–they have their
\nheirarchy, within that their individual roles, and their role as a group, all
\nin the effort to survive. Sometimes the going must get tough–they sustain
\nwinters when forage is slim and the large deer carcasses that appear near the
\npond and elsewhere suggest there are large predators (mountain lions!) to be
\nwatched out for. These horses know what it takes to survive and I believe they
\nknow every inch of the pasture better than we could ever imagine.<\/p>\n
\naccustomed to seeing them. Sure, I agree. However, there’s an important
\ndistinction I’d like to make about horses on their home turf of the pasture
\nversus out in the park or elsewhere. On their home turf our horses are in their
\nsurvival mode, if you will. Their senses are extraordinarily in tune with their
\nsurroundings, their herdmates. Adding something new to their home environment,
\nlike a car, bicycle, baby stroller, is a very different from encountering a
\ncar, bicycle or baby stroller out in Tilden.<\/p>\n
\ntrail miles and what I consider to be\u00a0 level-headed personalities.
\nNonetheless, when riding in the pasture where they’ve been living, they’re much
\nmore suspicious of new things. An unexpected car appearing will at the very
\nleast get some mighty snorts. However, take them over to Tilden or down to San Pablo Dam Road
\nand they’ll calmly tangle with all sorts of stimuli. Last fall when
\nconstruction crews took over the road at Wildcat\/San Pablo Dam where I wanted
\nto cross I asked the 3 or 4 truckloads of workers to stop drilling for a minute
\nwhile we crossed. My horse bravely followed me through orange waving flags and
\nheavy machinery without much of a flinch. Pam and Dexter followed. We weren’t
\non our pasture, we were out and expecting to encounter all sorts of stuff.<\/p>\n
\ncar on the home turf of their pasture out of the blue, versus crossing a road
\nin the park. We know horses can become accustomed to seeing vehicles in their
\npasture though–when we regularly feed from trucks they know to expect to see a
\ntruck between 3 and 5pm.<\/p>\n
\none up the first hill on the west side of El Toyonal,
\none down the first hill east of El Toyonal. Not far out in the pasture, but in
\na place where there is lots of visibility and regular use. When a horse is in
\nthe Plateau, for example, their owner could drive to the parking area up the
\nfirst hill (maybe near the troughs), then walk up the rest of the way to get
\ntheir horse, leading their horse down to the car. The horses would get used to
\nseeing a car in this area. And, riders would know they’d be possibly be coming
\nup to a car and could dismount if they’d like.<\/p>\n
\nmonths? I’m hoping Kathy Campbell, who is a retired firefighter, can help
\nclarify what the danger is. I actually thought we weren’t allowed to drive in
\nthe pasture during the dry season because of the risk of sparks and hot tail
\npipes igniting the grasses. I also see having a designated parking place as a
\nway of helping reduce this risk. It could be a gravel surface wide enough to
\nmake a tight turn, versus having to back into the dry grass to turn around.<\/p>\n
\ntempted to comment on, but don’t expect it would do any good.<\/p>\n
\nNice level-headed perspective. I also like parking in the Pond Red barn
\nenclosure where there is a fence between the cars and the horse. I wait till my
\ncar is cool and park it in there. I do go get my horse on the roads and pony
\nthem down to that spot, the herd does not seen to worry about my car
\namong\u00a0 or near them, probably makes them hope for a treat. I am always
\nhaving to shoo them away so oft times I park a ways away so they do not come
\nand try to eat my car.<\/p>\n
\nSince the floors open- I would like to point out that as our membership ages,
\nstatistically anyone who lives long enough will become disabled….wouldn’t it
\nbe nice to provide access where and when we reasonably can so as you get older
\nyou can continue to see your horse for years to come. (Of course I am still
\nproudly – and sadly one of the youngest members at 30+). I hope this will weigh
\ninto decisions here…you don’t know and don’t have the right to judge whether
\nsomeone can\/can’t healthily walk up….last I checked we didn’t vet check for
\nmembership nor did we kick people out for injuries or disabilities….<\/p>\n
\nStatistically most injuries happen to more experienced riders….chronicle of
\nthe horse published a great article on this….the nature of the sport (deemed
\nextreme by many) is that if you ride long enough you will fall. You can’t
\neliminate dangers you can train to prevent them!<\/p>\n
\ngreen horse for the first time, and others have their dog lunge at him…. its
\nlife….you choose the horse you risk to ride…and then ride…. we can’t
\npossibly eliminate every hazard a horse might spook at… we wouldn’t have a
\npasture…if you don’t want hazards like cars birds and other horses…try a
\nstall and covered arena!<\/p>\n
\nfor specific work related to running the pasture such as moving hay or bringing
\nup tools to work on a specific work project. I do not support autos driving up
\nbased on a personal convenience factor.<\/p>\n
\nfire danger issues especially during the dry season with all the dry grass
\nwe have. It only takes one spark.<\/p>\n
\nroads, grassy areas. There has never been a car fire. Everyone who drives
\npractices those rules. Perhaps they can be delineated so anyone new can be
\ninformed.<\/p>\n
\nprobably should not have been.<\/p>\n
\nIt seems like people are either “fer ’em” or “agin ’em”.
\nNothing in the middle.<\/p>\n
\nPark in the Pond Barn enclosure after making sure the car c-converter is cool.
\n(This is my favorite and has been done for years without any problems.)
\nLet horses get used to cars by leaving one up there for a time – just make sure
\nthe horses are not loose with it – they eat the paint!
\nDesignated parking areas.
\nSome rules for driving on pasture ROADS for fire safety.<\/p>\n
\n************************************<\/p>\n
\nMembers,
\nSome members saw this item on the agenda and notified me, knowing I drive at
\nOHA and it has made it much more accessible to me. Driving up there is near and
\ndear to me. Also I heard it was my car that caused Alice’s and Pam’s horses to
\nspook, which was a terrible accident so I feel I need to get involved. I’m
\nputting this letter out to “OHA All” and soliciting comment in
\nadvance of the meeting, Thurs. (by Wed p.m.) I’ve asked a couple of members for
\ntheir input already and have received comments of disbelief and concern. Others
\nhad opposing opinions. Your thoughts? (ASAP)
\nG<\/p>\n
\nCars on pasture at OHA – your input?<\/p>\n
\nstory: The board is looking at stopping\/ regulating vehicle
\naccess to OHA roads at the next board meeting. I think prohibiting vehicles a
\nbad idea although from a good-hearted place. Perhaps they just want to put in
\nplace some common sense rules which is OK but I want to avoid a slippery slope
\nto “over regulation”. I appreciate all the hard work our boards do to
\nmake OHA a good place to be. I am also concerned that over regulation will
\nslowly but surely take away the pleasure and treasure that is OHA. Previous
\nboards and EBMUD have decided in the past that it OK to have vehicle access.<\/p>\n
\ngather opinions and thoughts about this and forward them to the board. I’ve
\nasked the board if this is OK and they said yes. Please send your thoughts to
\nme so I can send them Wed. night or Thursday morning so the board
\ncan see them before the meeting. THANKS!<\/p>\n
\nNote the item on the agenda about cars on the pasture, a small note, seemingly
\nnot a big thing.<\/p>\n
\nlight of Pam and Alice’s unfortunate bolting accident.\u00a0 David and I were
\nriding at the same time on the dame day and our horses almost bolted when a
\nhawk came up over a rise. Fortunately we contained them. This was on the heels
\nof a discussion of why I do not like to run the horses even on a wide seemingly
\nsafe road. One never knows what may pop up and spook a horse. Cows, other
\nhorses, hawks almost anything real or imagined … riding
\nhorses is an unsafe past-time. We all know that.<\/p>\n
\nbeing placed on my car being there. I am sincerely sorry the accident happened.
\nI “heard’ that my silver car reflected light that caused the horses to
\nspook. If so, the conditions are a million times to one that that will ever
\nhappen again. The sun, date, time and rider would have to be is just the right
\nspot for that kind of shine to happen again. The car was parked in a large flat
\narea within a wide view of anyone approaching it. I spoke to Pam and she feels
\nit was indeed the car that caused the horses to spook. I hope Alice and Pam
\nrecover well and soon to ride again. They are important members at OHA and
\nno-one wants anyone to be hurt. It was an odd combination of events. They are
\ncareful attentive riders so I think what happened was a fluke. In any case it
\nwas “the icing on the cake”. Since there are some who do not want to
\nsee cars up there at all and some who simply want to make some common sense
\nrules … the discussion is called.<\/p>\n
\nRiding on the road or crossing into our many parks involve vehicle\u00a0involvement.
\nI do not know of any persons at OHA that never leave the pasture. Horses need
\nto become accustomed to vehicles, objects, obstacles and distractions as a part
\nof their training. Riders must always aware of the possibilities.<\/p>\n
\npeople have been injured. I have been thrown off many times and hurt badly twice.
\nI started wearing a helmet when Dusty spooked on the road one day and my head
\nhit the pavement with the Konk of a cocoanut being dropped on a rock. We know
\nwhat happened to Lisa. When I told Lenny the board is considering stopping
\ndriving\/parking in the pasture and he asked “Because of one incident in
\nhow many years?” Legislating from an isolated incident is another example
\nof the slippery slope to over-regulation. One board member assured me they
\npersonally do not believe in micro-management – who has the time? But, there
\nare others now and in the past who think there should be more rules.<\/p>\n
\nhelpful thing. It saves time, saves over an hour every riding day. It
\nallows those with 4-wheel drive to get up there more often. I often will pop up
\nto the pasture to check on my horses when I come to and fro from the Berkeley area. Driving
\nhelps me keep a better eye on them. Vehicles allow for better transport of
\nequipment and is helpful to those who can ride but not climb hills. I got
\nstarted driving up there by giving Lens rides up to get his horse. This
\nextended Lens’ riding over two years. Now Lenny, who has emphysema,
\nis grateful for being able to access the horses easier. Sometime we go for
\nwalks to visit the horses and enjoy the scenery. Cross fencing has been a pain
\nin some ways but knowing where they are brings the advantage being able to
\ndrive near the horses without having to being them all the way down (from some
\npretty far-flung pastures) making a faster departure and return from a ride.
\nSome call this convenience. I call it a necessity.<\/p>\n
\nis much more time consuming and difficult. This impacts accessibility from a
\ntime and convenience standpoint. Not to mention thefts of things from parked
\ncars. I heard it said, that EBMUD says, that roads are for vehicle access. If
\nno vehicles were to be up there there would be only trails.<\/p>\n
\nvocal proponents of exercise. However I think it would be a big mistake to take
\naway these benefits from many members who do. I do not know if anyone on the
\nboard has a 4 wheel drive so they may not able to directly enjoy the benefits –
\nthis could cause a bias against cars.<\/p>\n
\nonce, as far as I know, maybe twice, and the board at that\/those times decided
\nfor vehicle access.<\/p>\n
\npasture while riding. When I see a car up there I think “So and so has the
\nchance to ride on their lunch hour, how nice!” Or maybe some work is being
\ndone. I have a different perspective, to me cars up there are smart and
\nhelpful. I do not like the looks of the fence around the pond but there it is.
\nI’m learning to live with it as it makes others feel happier.<\/p>\n
\ndiscussion will be more around car parking safety such as not
\nparking on dry grass when your catalytic converter is still hot. That’s a
\nsafety concern I can get behind. Perhaps a good idea would be to have an easily
\nflippable sign that indicates that there is a vehicle in the pasture posted at
\nthe gates on El Toyonal. What are your ideas?<\/p>\n