Too Many Emails
Sun, 10/11/2009 – 18:30 — ajohnson
Really? Do we have to have 100 million emails about a small incident between a member whose dog was tied too close to a hitching post, and another member who then tied their horse too near it… they didn’t get along, shame on both…. let’s move on and don’t do it again…. either of you.. the end….If it is really that dramatic, take it to a board meting and hash it out. Let the President/Board decide on whatever the “issue” and “rule change is”. This is soooo not fun and so overly dramatic, and last time I checked horses were supposed to be fun?My vote, let it go!!!!!! Going forward: don’t tie horses near dogs, don’t tie dogs near hitching posts…end of story….As for lawyers, I live with one, and you can run up thousands of dollars hashing out anything in court and both sides pay big fees… no one would win anything!! No damage- no winnings… The end… atleast please don’t email me anymore…
Ban Dogs from Pear Orchard
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 23:19 — cfulton
Therefore I suggest the Board consider banning all dogs from the Pear Orchard area.
Fri, 10/09/2009 – 16:17 — KimZvik
I agree.
This is exactly what I offered to Heather after this incident and this wasn’t enough for her. I believe any rules about dogs should be for all dogs not just mine. This is one point Cheryl and I agree on.
Sat, 10/10/2009 – 01:52 — Cheryl Ann Fulton
Rules for dogs
General rules should apply to all dogs. However if a particular dog exhibits aggressive, out of control behaviors over an extended period of time that dog and owner should be dealt with individually.
Sat, 10/10/2009 – 01:49 — Cheryl Ann Fulton
able to use this forum
Thank you Eddie and Alison. This Discussion section was easy to find and use. I hope members will use this and not email in the furture.
Pear Orchard Incident
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 23:03 — rbenoit
I’m sorry Kim but some of what you say here is incorrect. I don’t have anything against Willow but you can’t load the survey. See correction in CAPS belowIn early July, a member of OHA tied a horse up next to Willow in the Pear Orchard. This horse, WAS NOT DOG AGGRESSIVE IF ANYTHING IT WAS A VERY TOLERANT HORSE known to be dog aggressive, put his head down to Willow.
Dogs&Horses
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 22:30 — kzvik
Do you actually own your own dog and have walked up in the pasture on leash and had a horse put his head down and go after the dog? I have and known which horses do this. Ironically, this was the same horse which I hauled to Davis the week after. I was so mad, I almost didn’t but for the sake of OHA I did the right thing.Hopefully, the membership will also do the right thing and not subject my dog to risk. Or, to being put away. He is a rescue dog and this breed is known for being very family safe. Thanks,Kim
Support Board
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 22:28 — cfulton
The question posed on the survey is not easily answered by a yes or no. I support the Board’s decision. My opinion:Willow needs to be in Kim’s presence on a leash (and within eyesight) at all times when at OHA and not allowed to roam free. While Kim is out on a ride Willow should confined in a crate or car (on a cool day with proper ventilation should not be an issue-if it is leave the dog home). Not leaving a dog roaming around while a member is out on a ride applies to everyone. In Willow’s case when with Kim he also needs to be on a leash. Leaving him tied up somewhere while Kim is out on a ride and not able to control him is a proven hazard. There have been aggression problems with WIllow ongoing for years now. The Board has plenty of data. We have more than enough incidences with OHA members and people on the road whose dogs have been attacked by Willow to know he is a dog that needs to be completely supervised and under control at all times. The tie up spaces are meant for horses not dogs. Dogs should not be taking up space, especially in the PO or LP saddling area, intended for and needed by members for their horses. If a member ties up a dog, takes up space and goes out on a ride there is no way that dog can be moved if the space is needed by another member for their horse, especially in the event all more distant rails are occupied. Both of those areas are small and if there are 3 or more horses present there is already crowding and a need for extra vigilance. Adding a tied up, unattended dog to that mix is asking for trouble. My version of common sense.Cheryl
Horses & Dogs
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 22:21 — cfulton
Horses have every right to go after an animal they perceive as a predator. If someone does not want their dog charged they should keep the dog away from horses. Dogs are individuals and do not necessarily conform to the characteristics of their breed.
Appeal to Board Before Survey
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 22:19 — kzvik
Hi Eddie,I did appeal to the board and a board member informed me this issue was not reheard in spite of the data I emailed including offering to attend the meeting. So, this poll is completely valid.Also, it is amazing that members didn’t know that Spice was dog aggressive or that there were other posts to tie to. So, obviously, much information was left out. Now, let’s imagine that this was 2 horses. Should Camou be tied if he nips at another horse at a tie rail? Or, should the owner be more vigilant and not tie the horses too close together? This is exactly the case here.Thanks,Kim
Poll
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 22:17 — kzvik
Hi OHA,Please see the link below to decide on an issue regarding my dog Willow.http://www..surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=OghdLD0msGlMjYePseJG8g_3d_3dThanks,Kim
Assumption of Risk
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 21:46 — clarner
I consulted one of the attorneys I work with who has done extensive litigation and agrees with me. This situation is “assumption of the risk.” No court would find the dog owner culpable. The horse owner tied a horse up next to a dog that was already there and which she was aware of. The horse owner “assumed the risk” for any behavior that happend between the animals. The fact that there were other spots to tie the horse up would further support the free choice involved.
Spice and dogs
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 21:11 — rbenoit
Kim,Because you CC’d the whole proprietary Mship on this I have to reply to all even though I don’t think they want to be subjected to this.YES, I own my own dog and, NO, I have NEVER had a horse go after my dog (two dogs BTW). I HAVE seen dogs go after horse though.But that is NOT the issue. You mischaracterized the horse in question – SPICE – as being dog aggressive. This is patently untrue and I wish you had not taken it upon yourself to add that false information. I feel for you and your dog but it is not right for you to mischaracterize.- Renee
Pear Orchard Incident
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 21:08 — hpineda
Up to this point I have refrained from entering this fray. However, now that Kim’s survey has been condoned by the President, I feel I must correct inaccuracies in Kim’s portrayal of the event.First of all, Spice has never been aggressive toward dogs, as his owners and sponsors will attest. On the day in question, I brought two horses out of the Pear Orchard and tied them at the tie rail. Willow was tied on one side of the tie rail. I tied Spice as FAR from Willow as I possibly could.Willow was obviously nervous at being left alone in an unfamiliar place with people he considered strangers nearby. Willow attacked with NO provocation from the horse. Willow’s bite to Spice’s nose drew blood. Had it been any other horse, it is likely the attack would have caused the horse to attempt to flee and caused serious bodily injury to both the horse and my daughter, who was standing close to Spice. Fortunately, Spice was an uncommonly rational horse and only pulled back for about 30 seconds before we calmed him down. I consider it very lucky that Willow did not attack my daughter.Please recall that Willow has a history of attacking other animals. A few years ago, Willow repeatedly attacked dogs belonging to local residents who walk down El Toyonal. After numerous incidents, the residents threatened to call Animal Control and the police. The Board requested that Kim restrain her dog or that he wear a muzzle. Kim complied for a while, but then began letting Willow run loose again. Very recently, Willow tried to attack my new dog. In my opinion, a dog that has bitten other animals or people cannot be trusted in public, no matter how much training he has had. Having Willow run loose, or be tied in areas where he can intimidate or attack others, in my opinion is an unacceptable risk to members of OHA, our horses, and the public.The Board did not tell Kim to keep her dog in a car on a hot day. It is ludicrous to state that the Board is advocating putting an animal at risk.The Board made several suggestions to Kim, including that she put her dog in a crate which can be left outside in the shade with water provided. Kim has a number of options to choose from that will meet the intention of the Board’s action. Heather Pineda Timeline Willow tied to PO hitching post closest to gate, Kim goes riding Alison visited Pear Orchard; only one horse, Willow seemed fine Heather (with Bella) arrives at Pear Orchard, Willow seems nervous Heather and Bella bring Spice, Peppymint and Kajima down to the saddling area Peppymint and Kajima are tied to posts, Spice to the other end of the hitching rack Willow jumps out and bites Spice on the nose (drawing blood) Spice pulls back violently, attempting to get away from Willow. Heather is able to calm him down before he is further injured.
Willow Comments
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 21:06 — kzvik
1) my dog couldn’t get his nose next to Spice’s if Spice was tied correctly2) Heather, like Renee, didn’t have a new dog until recently so has no idea about how Spice is around dogs3) My dog would pee before ever attacking a human as I have a 6 year old who crawled over him pulling his flank and stomach over the last 4 years4) He has never bitten only nipped other dogs when play THREE YEARS AGO5) He didn’t attack her new dog as I was there. He sniffed. That was it – hello in dog language6) Heather bears a grudge against me after the issue in 2006 when she was on the board7) Heather has some childhood wounds that make her need for control tantamountThanks,Kim
Mothe
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 21:03 — cfulton
Willow aggressively attacked Mothe snarling, teeth bared and pinned him to the ground, not in play and not nipping, several times inAugust 2006. As I recall Kim agreed to try a shock collar after those attacks but that has not provided a permanentsolution.
ASPCA and dogs in cars
Thu, 10/08/2009 – 21:00 — clarner
The ASPCA has stated in written communications that it is not ok to leave dogs in cars. Also, it is foolish to tie any horse up very closely next to someone elses dog. This is just common sense since confined animals could do anything if they feel threatened. The dog was already there so tieing a horse up right next to the dog was simply not smart. I don’t think the dog is at fault here. At fault is the person who tied the horse up right next to the dog. There were other options to tie the horse up to a more distant rail. Let’s try to use some common sense. —Christie